Das Volks Vintage Volkswagen Gruppe

Long Island's source for the aircooled Volkswagen Hobby

'73/1500

Have a quick question, not related to your project? Post in here!
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Re: '73/1500

Postby volksbugusa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:36 pm

D-A-N wrote:
volksbugusa wrote:hi had the springs sitting in my garage....i also needed to add the center spring as well

matt



Thanks for the tip. My only lingering question is how do you tell when you have too much or not enough tension on the throttle arms? I'm guessing that if it's a little off then the throttle plates won't close enough or that the gas pedal will feel crappy?

Totally unrelated question for anyone:

I'm sure the answer to this is "it depends" or "it's hard to say" but I'm wondering if the Bug In tends to be a good place to pick up parts or are the prices at shows usually too high and not worth it unless it's a really hard to find thing?

I need some boring stuff like a vent window, window scrapers, and other odds and ends which are pretty easy to get online but I figure it'd be more fun to buy stuff at a show b/c I could see it first. But if "as a rule" shows tend to mean price gouging then I'll just do online.

Opinions or experiences anyone?



used german hardware is always the best..but when is comes to window scrapers...only go with wolfsberg or wcm..best to purchase both inside and outside scapers at the same time from the same supplier...i know cost is always important but a good fitting part is more important...also you should buy the felt channels from the same supplies mentioned...as far as the springs ..if the pedal is returning to a rest and not being hung up anywhere then you are good to go...
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:21 pm

Spring tension on the carb is kinda user specific. I agree there should be enough tension to return the carbs to idle, but some people like to have a lot of tension on the pedal. The tension may cause unneeded stress on the cables, so keep that in mind. Your set up will be some where in the middle. Some people make some cool setups and if you are like me, most things on the car will be swapped out for upgrades over the years.

Is you goal to buy parts form the same vendor that you would normally buy them form anyway, or find a dude selling new parts he didnt use? Some vendors do offer discounted prices at shows, but others dont bring all the stuff so you may want to call ahead to confirm hes bringing it. Another idea is to contact sellers of parts ( non businesses) and have them bring the parts to the show. If the parts are bigger you can save the shipping there too.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:32 pm

Raj wrote:Spring tension on the carb is kinda user specific. I agree there should be enough tension to return the carbs to idle, but some people like to have a lot of tension on the pedal. The tension may cause unneeded stress on the cables, so keep that in mind. Your set up will be some where in the middle. Some people make some cool setups and if you are like me, most things on the car will be swapped out for upgrades over the years.

Is you goal to buy parts form the same vendor that you would normally buy them form anyway, or find a dude selling new parts he didnt use? Some vendors do offer discounted prices at shows, but others dont bring all the stuff so you may want to call ahead to confirm hes bringing it. Another idea is to contact sellers of parts ( non businesses) and have them bring the parts to the show. If the parts are bigger you can save the shipping there too.


I wish I'd had a chance to get on that linkage stuff this weekend b/c the damned thing popped off AGAIN today just as I was getting on the Grand Central by LaGuardia.

Thankfully, the lane I was in turned into an exit lane for a gas station so I drifted in there at about 5mph. But crap, that thing is getting dangerous! Gonna get outside later w/ some zip ties and see what I can do.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby volksbugusa » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:40 pm

D-A-N wrote:
Raj wrote:Spring tension on the carb is kinda user specific. I agree there should be enough tension to return the carbs to idle, but some people like to have a lot of tension on the pedal. The tension may cause unneeded stress on the cables, so keep that in mind. Your set up will be some where in the middle. Some people make some cool setups and if you are like me, most things on the car will be swapped out for upgrades over the years.

Is you goal to buy parts form the same vendor that you would normally buy them form anyway, or find a dude selling new parts he didnt use? Some vendors do offer discounted prices at shows, but others dont bring all the stuff so you may want to call ahead to confirm hes bringing it. Another idea is to contact sellers of parts ( non businesses) and have them bring the parts to the show. If the parts are bigger you can save the shipping there too.


I wish I'd had a chance to get on that linkage stuff this weekend b/c the damned thing popped off AGAIN today just as I was getting on the Grand Central by LaGuardia.

Thankfully, the lane I was in turned into an exit lane for a gas station so I drifted in there at about 5mph. But crap, that thing is getting dangerous! Gonna get outside later w/ some zip ties and see what I can do.



dan i thought you where installing the scat set up....should be using nut and bolt...not the set post...they will always pop off matt
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:46 pm

volksbugusa wrote:
D-A-N wrote:
Raj wrote:Spring tension on the carb is kinda user specific. I agree there should be enough tension to return the carbs to idle, but some people like to have a lot of tension on the pedal. The tension may cause unneeded stress on the cables, so keep that in mind. Your set up will be some where in the middle. Some people make some cool setups and if you are like me, most things on the car will be swapped out for upgrades over the years.

Is you goal to buy parts form the same vendor that you would normally buy them form anyway, or find a dude selling new parts he didnt use? Some vendors do offer discounted prices at shows, but others dont bring all the stuff so you may want to call ahead to confirm hes bringing it. Another idea is to contact sellers of parts ( non businesses) and have them bring the parts to the show. If the parts are bigger you can save the shipping there too.


I wish I'd had a chance to get on that linkage stuff this weekend b/c the damned thing popped off AGAIN today just as I was getting on the Grand Central by LaGuardia.

Thankfully, the lane I was in turned into an exit lane for a gas station so I drifted in there at about 5mph. But crap, that thing is getting dangerous! Gonna get outside later w/ some zip ties and see what I can do.



dan i thought you where installing the scat set up....should be using nut and bolt...not the set post...they will always pop off matt



I was going to but we got so wrapped up in working on the Squareback this whole weekend that I had nothing left for installing the Scat linkage. Learned my lesson.....Got to stay focused!
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:09 pm

So one of our window regulators decided to crap out today and I can't get our passenger side window to roll up.

I got in the car and the window rolled down fine.

When I went to get out and close the window, the part the crank screws into made a nasty sound like something was being stripped. Now the window won't go up. Tried removing the crank and using a vice grip to roll up. The knob spins a bit but the window doesn't move at all.

I'm assuming the regulator is shot.

Is there a way I can get the window up and keep it closed until I can get a new regulator? It's hot as all hell on my treeless street so I'd like some advice before I go out there and sweat my beard off.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Glenn » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:17 pm

If you can't crank it closed, you can remove the door panel, unbolt the window from the regulator and use a piece of wood to hold it closed.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:37 pm

Glenn wrote:If you can't crank it closed, you can remove the door panel, unbolt the window from the regulator and use a piece of wood to hold it closed.



Just when I was waiting for a neighbor to get me a piece of wood, I cursed at the thing real loud for making me sweat so bad, and sprayed it with WD-40. Damn window got so scared it jumped right up and into place. :twisted:
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Big_kid » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:45 pm

Can you PM me that magic chant? My buggy doesn't have windows, but there's plenty of other things that need "gentle persuasion" from time to time and the right combination of words would be a good thing to know.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:40 pm

Big_kid wrote:Can you PM me that magic chant? My buggy doesn't have windows, but there's plenty of other things that need "gentle persuasion" from time to time and the right combination of words would be a good thing to know.


Ha! If only I could but they're situational.

The curses that work on my car might make yours worse and I'd feel bad if that happened.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:07 am

I posted a month or so ago about the oil light flickering after a highway run. Upped the idle a bit and it went away for a spell but the red light keeps coming back and it does so after shorter drives now that it's really hot out.

We took a long drive upstate and back yesterday. Got 207 miles from 7 gallons of gas so we're running good in that department but pulling into a rest stop the oil pressure dropped so low that we almost stalled. Normally only the oil light comes on but that time it was oil and generator lights.

It keeps getting hotter outside so I suppose my carb linkage and idle screws could be responding to the ever-increasing outside temps and at max operating temp the idle is just too low. It'd be annoying to have to adjust the idle everyday but I'll do it if I have to.

Other thing is after doing a little reading I'm now wondering if the oil I'm using is too light. I've currently got Brad Penn 10W-30 in there. Should I have something thicker for this desert-like weather?
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Glenn » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:53 am

You can try thicker oil. They also make a stronger spring for the pressure relief pots.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:44 pm

I'll second the thinker oil. I run a heavier blend in the summer on all my vws. Kudos on the almost 30 mpg!
Glenn wrote:I have to say, this "gruppe" is so much more than just a car club.


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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Thanks guys......


Not to enter the quicksand of "what's the best oil to use" but what's the best thicker oil to use w/ enough zinc to make the cam happy?

And Glenn, who's a source for those stronger springs for the pressure relief pots?
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:41 am

Okay....did some research.

Looks like Lucas Oil makes a Hot Rod and Classic Car oil high in zinc

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products_overviews.sd?iid=44&catid=6

20W 50 seems a bit thick

10W 40 seems okay?

Or else there's just straight off-the-shelf oil of whatever weight with this stuff in it

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Oil-Supplement-with-Zinc-ZDDP-Treatment-Rislone_7660002-P_N2049_T|GRP60033___

If anyone wants to share their summer preference, I'd be grateful.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:57 pm

D-A-N wrote:Thanks guys......


Not to enter the quicksand of "what's the best oil to use" but what's the best thicker oil to use w/ enough zinc to make the cam happy?

And Glenn, who's a source for those stronger springs for the pressure relief pots?



DAN, engine oil maker preference is on par with politics and religion..... neither of which I dabble in too much. I only use brand name stuff, but have no true loyalty in any of my cars. My truck uses mobil 1, every 5K, and my 65 uses castrol 20-50 only bc that was what the builder recommended. I leave this debate up to others that have time and appetite to read up on the subject.

Keep us posted on the developments.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:51 pm

Dan, I read this recently on another forum and thought I'd share it with you and others if interested,


When I bought my oval I was planning on using 30w detergent oil like I used in my '67. I decided to ask my cousin who is a lubricant engineer at Exxon-Mobil for some input on what oil to use. Since he owns a '73 Porsche 911 rsr ( nice car!) I figured he would know a thing or two about air-cooled engines. After two hours of lecture, this is what I learned.
First, he says straight weight oil has no place anymore as a motor lubricant. Early multi-weight oils would break down quickly under heat and pressure, this is not the case anymore, especially with synthetics. Unfortunately, that stigma has kept many people from using multi-weight oil for years.

A 30w oil is the same thickness as 10w30 or 5w30 or 0w30 etc. at 100 degrees F but is very thick at 32 degrees F. and almost un-pumpable at 0 degrees F. The multi-weight "30" flows like it's namesake 10, 5, 0 etc. at 32degrees F. This saves a massive amount of wear every time you start your cold engine, plus it will start easier and run smoother when cold.

Conventional or synthetic? Synthetic oils cost more, there's a reason for this! Conventional 10w30 is made from 10w oil with, among other things, esters and polymers to keep it from thinning out at high temperatures. Synthetic 10w30 is made from 30w oil with "relaxers" in it to keep it flowing down to extremely low temperatures. This design feature helps keep it from breaking down at very high temperatures much better than It's conventional equivalent. Synthetics also make feats only dreamed possible by the VW engineers 50 years ago, like 0W40 oil which has virtually no compromise.

What weight? Our air-cooled engines run best with 40w oil when hot. 30w conventional was always a compromise, because 40w was hard to get going even on warm mornings. So all thing being equal, 0w40 would be best under all circumstances. Not so fast! If your engine is freshly built, all new seals, then yes than 0w40 will work well. But most of our motors have some mileage or at least some minor leaks. The high-mileage synthetic oils offer seal conditioners and volatility enhancers to reduce leaks and burn-off, they also have more ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus [more on that later!]). Mobil 1 makes a high-mileage 10w40 which is what I run in my 36hp oval since 0w40 or 5w40 is not available yet.

Additives? Yes! one important additive, ZDDP. This is zinc and phosphorus, but we are mainly concerned about the zinc. Zinc reduces significantly, the scuffing of flat tappet cams/ lifters which all of our air-cooled cars have. The only problem is, zinc and catalytic converters don't get along. Over time the zinc builds up in the converter and reduces it's effectiveness. So our brilliant leaders in Washington have mandated that the zinc content in ALL oils be reduced to almost nonexistence instead of allowing some oils containing proper levels of zinc (about 1200 ppm) for our older cars. Rislone and some other manufactures make an additive that will do the trick, I buy it at Advance auto parts.

Switching oil types. If you have been using detergent oil all along you can switch to any oil any time. BUT! if you have been using non detergent oil DO NOT switch to any detergent oil unless you are planing on replacing your oil cooler very soon! All of the sludge that has built up on the inside of the motor will quickly be washed into the oiling system and plug the oil cooler and any other small passage in the engine. That is why old mechanics, years ago, say detergent oils are bad for the motor, especially our motors with their oil coolers (sorry Casey!)

I hope this makes sense to all you volks, This is what I learned straight from the horses mouth and I thought I would pass it along.
Glenn wrote:I have to say, this "gruppe" is so much more than just a car club.


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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:45 pm

Thanks for this Raj.....that Samba oil thread is such a pit of gripes, complaints, and accusations mixed w/ good advice and etc. that it's hard to read. What you posted is level-headed and makes sense.

However, I decided I'm just going to buy some acreage in the Gulf of Mexico, build an oil rig, and then refine my own oil. I'll let you know how it goes but if anyone wants to offer some "seed money" for what will no doubt be an "oil tree" just PM me! Good way to get in on the ground level. :D
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Big_kid » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Raj, we both know that a post like this could be like dumping chum in shark infested water. I hate to admit it in an open forum, but I've been gun shy about changing my oil out of fear of what I'd be putting into the crankcase. The oil in my buggy right now is lets just say, very old, but very low mileage (brought up to temp every so often during hibernation).

I avoided the thread on the Samba for the reasons Dan mentioned. Other threads elsewhere were much the same. I have a jug of Castrol 20W50 waiting for me, I just need to pick up the Rislone now.

Thanks for posting this, it's exactly what I needed to read.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:27 am

Im glad you guys enjoyed the post as much as I did. A guy from the CJVWS posted it up over there and I too liked this style of neutral third party posting. Agree TS can get a bit overbearing at times, as it becomes more of a social/ 'shoot the shit style' posting which isnt helpful in the technical forum when you need straights answers. The volume of posts/ users there has its pros and cons.

Anywho.... change that oil charlie! Its the blood of you engine! Even if its not the 'ideal' oil, Id rather have clean oil than dirty stuff.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby Big_kid » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:53 pm

It's not at all dirty, just old. Old enough that it probably has zddp in it. VERY low miles.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby volksbugusa » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:28 am

best oil.....

if you are willing to pay for it......i am

BRAD PENN GREEN OIL

The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.



ZDDP LAB RESULTS

We have seen the question arise on a number of chat rooms and websites about the amount of Zinc and Phosphorus in our Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oils. The questions seem to have arose after a number of people individually sent samples of our products to Blackstone Lab(s) for analysis. The Blackstone report showed a lower Zinc and Phosphorus additive concentration level then our established in house specifications and laboratory results from our ISO 9001:2008 quality control lab proved.

In an effort to clarify any misconception about our product we did our own testing and sent three virgin oil samples (each from the same identical batch) to both Blackstone Lab and Southwest Research Lab for testing. All three Southwest sample results were completely in line with our internal specifications/analysis. The Blackstone zinc and phosphorus results in all three analysis were lower than our internal specifications/analysis and Southwest Research’s lab results. The results for both the Blackstone and Southwest Research analysis are listed below:

Brad Penn Product Blackstone Southwest Research

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,214 ppm zinc 1,540 ppm
20W-50 #7119 phos 944 ppm phos 1,319 ppm

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,424 ppm zinc 1,565 ppm
10W-30 #7150 phos 1,139 ppm phos 1,332 ppm

Brad Penn PCMO zinc 689 ppm zinc 1,051 ppm
20W-50 SJ #7123* phos 522 ppm phos 901 ppm

*In some cases we feel our PCMO SAE 20W-50 was sent in for analysis (and not the High Performance Oil SAE 20W-50) which does contain lower Zinc and Phosphorous additive concentration levels.

The difference in results between Blackstone and SRI can be explained by a difference in methodology in analyzing the samples and not differences in the formulation. Blackstone employed measurement techniques more generally employed in analyzing used oils, while SRI employed methods more usually utilized for new multigrade engine oils. The samples provided to both labs were new oils. New oils that have not been subjected to shear often require higher dilution rates in the elemental analysis measured by ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) as indicated in method ASTM D5185.





For more information on products seen here, please contact us.

(C) 2006 American Refining Group, Inc.

Brad Penn®, Penn Grade 1®, and "THE GREEN OIL"®
are trademarks (registered or pending) of American Refining Group, Inc.
Owner of the only known Empi Titelock Rack in the world.Not a Jim Dandy
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Mastic,New York

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Re: '73/1500

Postby Raj » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:25 am

Big_kid wrote:It's not at all dirty, just old. Old enough that it probably has zddp in it. VERY low miles.



It my understanding that oil also breaks down after time, irrespective of mileage and 'dirt'. Some of my cars dont get driven enough at various points in the year and the ' 3 months' arrives earlier than the 3K miles.
Glenn wrote:I have to say, this "gruppe" is so much more than just a car club.


MrBreeze wrote:This is the DVG board. The threads flow as they flow.
Deal with it.
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Re: '73/1500

Postby D-A-N » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:28 am

volksbugusa wrote:best oil.....

if you are willing to pay for it......i am

BRAD PENN GREEN OIL

The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.



ZDDP LAB RESULTS

We have seen the question arise on a number of chat rooms and websites about the amount of Zinc and Phosphorus in our Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oils. The questions seem to have arose after a number of people individually sent samples of our products to Blackstone Lab(s) for analysis. The Blackstone report showed a lower Zinc and Phosphorus additive concentration level then our established in house specifications and laboratory results from our ISO 9001:2008 quality control lab proved.

In an effort to clarify any misconception about our product we did our own testing and sent three virgin oil samples (each from the same identical batch) to both Blackstone Lab and Southwest Research Lab for testing. All three Southwest sample results were completely in line with our internal specifications/analysis. The Blackstone zinc and phosphorus results in all three analysis were lower than our internal specifications/analysis and Southwest Research’s lab results. The results for both the Blackstone and Southwest Research analysis are listed below:

Brad Penn Product Blackstone Southwest Research

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,214 ppm zinc 1,540 ppm
20W-50 #7119 phos 944 ppm phos 1,319 ppm

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,424 ppm zinc 1,565 ppm
10W-30 #7150 phos 1,139 ppm phos 1,332 ppm

Brad Penn PCMO zinc 689 ppm zinc 1,051 ppm
20W-50 SJ #7123* phos 522 ppm phos 901 ppm

*In some cases we feel our PCMO SAE 20W-50 was sent in for analysis (and not the High Performance Oil SAE 20W-50) which does contain lower Zinc and Phosphorous additive concentration levels.

The difference in results between Blackstone and SRI can be explained by a difference in methodology in analyzing the samples and not differences in the formulation. Blackstone employed measurement techniques more generally employed in analyzing used oils, while SRI employed methods more usually utilized for new multigrade engine oils. The samples provided to both labs were new oils. New oils that have not been subjected to shear often require higher dilution rates in the elemental analysis measured by ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) as indicated in method ASTM D5185.





For more information on products seen here, please contact us.

(C) 2006 American Refining Group, Inc.

Brad Penn®, Penn Grade 1®, and "THE GREEN OIL"®
are trademarks (registered or pending) of American Refining Group, Inc.



I've been using Brad Penn 10W 30 but the place we get it at (Don's East Coast Restorations in Lindenhurst) only carries that weight....none of the heavier ones. Is there another supplier in the NYC/LI area?
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Re: '73/1500

Postby ObnoxiousBlue » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:54 am

There is one in Hauppauge (about 10 minutes from my house)

Glenn will chime in soon with the dealers contact info I'm sure.

If you call ahead, I can pick it up if we'll be crossing paths at a show or meeting.
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