'73/1500

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:11 pm

beetlejessica wrote:...hope we're not taking up too much "bandwidth" w/ our difficulties.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm glad your sharing your experiences with us. I dont get much free time to 'play' with my cars... so this has to tide me over. Keep us posted on the compression test.

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:31 pm

As Raj said I think most of us enjoy reading about someone working on their car. Also other then a few members who have seen it all these threads are great tools for learning. Unfortunately for you we are learning from your miss-fortunes.

I like your spirit looking forward to the rebuild, even if it's sooner then expected!!

Glenn A · Post by **Glenn A** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:13 am

My busted motor had 3k miles. I stopped driving it until I can pull it out and have a peak.

mannys66 · Post by **mannys66** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:35 am

beetlejessica wrote:I hoped that the engine was the one big thing we wouldn't have to worry about for at least a few years and a lot of miles as long as we kept up with maintenance...Darn engine only has 15K miles on it altogether and we've been good to it as far as tune ups, oil changes, not over-revving or lugging, not overheating, etc. so it's all a little mysterious to us.

Overall, we're gonna love building an engine (and shopping for these: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1053617) but in the short term I can't help feeling a little

We're gonna get over ourselves and do that compression test this weekend.
We definitely owe you a beer or three for all your help....hope we're not taking up too much "bandwidth" w/ our difficulties.

I don't wanna sound overly optimistic here, but nothing we've read so far says there's something wrong with your engine, other than a couple of loose studs here and there. for all you know once you re torque those heads your trouble will be over.

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:34 pm

mannys66 wrote:
beetlejessica wrote:I hoped that the engine was the one big thing we wouldn't have to worry about for at least a few years and a lot of miles as long as we kept up with maintenance...Darn engine only has 15K miles on it altogether and we've been good to it as far as tune ups, oil changes, not over-revving or lugging, not overheating, etc. so it's all a little mysterious to us.

Overall, we're gonna love building an engine (and shopping for these: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1053617) but in the short term I can't help feeling a little

We're gonna get over ourselves and do that compression test this weekend.
We definitely owe you a beer or three for all your help....hope we're not taking up too much "bandwidth" w/ our difficulties.
I don't wanna sound overly optimistic here, but nothing we've read so far says there's something wrong with your engine, other than a couple of loose studs here and there. for all you know once you re torque those heads your trouble will be over.

A loose nut is one thing, but that other bolt where the tip of it is sheared off would have me very concerned.

Optimism is a good thing though!!

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:51 pm

It'd be fun making a weekend of pulling the engine and torquing the studs but like Brown pointed out there's that sheared off looking one that just spins when you try to tighten it which means pulling the head, looking at the case and seeing what's up, and then getting a time-sert and the time-sert install kit then probably doing that to all the studs, right? After all, we're dealing with one of the "dreaded" H cases that most people (on The Samba anyway) seem to avoid and a handful of people love. Either way, it's a case known for loose studs as far as I can tell. When we think of the long term, it's hard to figure out if it's a better use of money and time to start with a brand new build from scratch or to figure out where to store/park the car while the engine's out and we replace the problem parts in a case already known for being a pain.

♥ Sincere thanks to everyone for their comments and support!! ♥

volksbugusa · Post by **volksbugusa** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:40 am

beetlejessica wrote:It'd be fun making a weekend of pulling the engine and torquing the studs but like Brown pointed out there's that sheared off looking one that just spins when you try to tighten it which means pulling the head, looking at the case and seeing what's up, and then getting a time-sert and the time-sert install kit then probably doing that to all the studs, right? After all, we're dealing with one of the "dreaded" H cases that most people (on The Samba anyway) seem to avoid and a handful of people love. Either way, it's a case known for loose studs as far as I can tell. When we think of the long term, it's hard to figure out if it's a better use of money and time to start with a brand new build from scratch or to figure out where to store/park the car while the engine's out and we replace the problem parts in a case already known for being a pain.

♥ Sincere thanks to everyone for their comments and support!! ♥

hi

you are better off starting a new build...or just purchasing a new long block...
There are some super engine builders out there that can help you...
if you need more advise just PM me....Regards

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:05 pm

Hi there. We got snowed out last weekend and didn't have time all week but we were kind of busy with the car this weekend. Yesterday I (Daniel) took off the rocker arm on the 3/4 side and tried to tighten down the loose nut we posted about a few weeks ago. It tightens but won't torque beyond about 10 lbs. or so. Just to see if the stud was spinning, I tried using a crescent wrench for a few turns but it didn't spin... the nut just kept going. After a while, it looked like more stud was coming toward me through the head...it now sticks out more than the others and I don't know what that's about. How unusual is that?

Today, we were able to do "most" of our compression test. We adjusted the valves, loosened the spark plugs a little, warmed up the engine, and went from there.

We only did "most" of the test because no matter how hard we tried for 45 minutes we couldn't get the tester into #3. We couldn't find the hole (no, I don't usually have that trouble

) we were cold, and the engine wasn't warm anymore so we figured even if we got it in, the reading wouldn't jive with the other 3. The results are not bad:

#1 140
#2 140 (where the sheared off looking stripped stud is)
#3 ???
#4 140 (where the other loose stud is)

Here are pictures of the plugs....each one is pretty different and it doesn't look like any of them are "normal". Is it unusual for them to all be so different? And how does the condition of each plug jive with the compression #? It's a little confusing whether you're supposed to "read" the electrode, the base of the plug, or both. Here they are, modelled and photographed by the lovely Jessica.

#1 looks decent but the electrode is pure white

#2 looks OK with a little bit of fluff

#3 is similiar to 1...even though it looks wet with oil, it's not wet

#4 looks like crap

The compression #'s are good (if anyone's going to be around north Brooklyn/western Queens anytime soon and wants to receive beer or food for help with getting a reading of #3, just let us know), the plugs are not the best, and the two studs spell future trouble so it's hard to figure out if we're in the same place as we've always been in terms of a rebuild/new build or if what we're posting now changes anyone's opinion.

Part of me would really love to be able to save the $$ we're designating for a rebuild for something REALLY impractical, like a Squareback.

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:39 pm

Jessica here with a little P.S.

When we started the car yesterday, we heard a really annoying and loud ticking sound. We thought it might be the valves on 1/2 so today we checked them and found that one of them was actually a little tight so we re-set it to .006

We just went to park the car (who doesn't love alternate side of the street parking regulations?) and the noise is still there. I made a little video of it here. You can't see anything but you can definitely hear it. I started in the engine compartment, moved down to the 1/2 side then over to 3/4:

http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g59/jesassica/?action=view&current=Video0012.mp4

It's not the valves b/c we checked and they were all .006. It can't be a loose plug because we changed those and torqued them to 22 ft/lbs. Is that the sound of an exhaust leak? We do have that stripped out exhaust stud on the 1/2 side that we decided not to change out a few weeks ago. Maybe that's coming back to haunt us?

Any ideas? We parked the car on Thursday and it wasn't making this noise. We started it yesterday and hear it and now it won't go away. Grrrrrr.

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:58 pm

Sounds to me like the problem you have with the head stud is it is pulling out of the case. That is why it won't torque properly and more and more of it is showing.

Just listened to the video and it sounds like noisy valves. Are you sure you are setting each the valve when its piston is at TDC after the compression stroke?

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:05 pm

Brown wrote:Sounds to me like the problem you have with the head stud is it is pulling out of the case. That is why it won't torque properly and more and more of it is showing.

Just listened to the video and it sounds like noisy valves. Are you sure you are setting each the valve when its piston is at TDC after the compression stroke?

That stud thing makes sense...it's pulling further out of the case. Crap.

I'm glad you were able to hear the video. Daniel was just reading about rod knock which was scaring us both. He has a tendency to find the worst and most expensive possible problem to fixate on. It would be a little odd to develop a huge problem over the course of two nights w/o starting the car at all.

Anyway, every time we've set the valves (at least 8 times already) we've only just done it at TDC in general which I guess is TDC on 1 of 4 possible strokes. We've never had the noise before after doing valves but we've definitely had loose ones. Maybe we've been lucky with just using TDC in general.

How do you go about finding out what stroke you're at TDC for?

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:27 pm

You start with cylinder 1 with the TDC mark on the pully lined up with the crack in the case and then check to see that the rotor is pointing to spark plug number 1 (notch in the distributor case). After setting the vavles rotate the pully 180 degress and set cylinder 4, then 180 degrees more set cylinder 3, rotate 180 more and set vavles on cylinder 2.

Here is the complete procedure on Dave and Robs website.

http://www.vw-resource.com/valveadj.html

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:32 pm

good tips Ken. Agree that its prob just loose valves.

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:36 pm

Huh...we've been doing it the way it says on the Rob & Dave site and our notch in the pully and our rotor and notch in the distributor are lined up right. When we turn the engine counterclockwise, the rotor points at the corresponding plug wire.

I looked again at Rob & Dave and it says 1, 2, 3, 4 turning the engine counterclockwise. Are you saying we should turn it clockwise, in firing order, and do it 1, 4, 3, 2? Or turn it counterclockwise and still do it 1, 4, 3, 2?

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:31 pm

beetlejessica wrote:Huh...we've been doing it the way it says on the Rob & Dave site and our notch in the pully and our rotor and notch in the distributor are lined up right. When we turn the engine counterclockwise, the rotor points at the corresponding plug wire.

I looked again at Rob & Dave and it says 1, 2, 3, 4 turning the engine counterclockwise. Are you saying we should turn it clockwise, in firing order, and do it 1, 4, 3, 2? Or turn it counterclockwise and still do it 1, 4, 3, 2?

I was referring to the clockwise direction so it sounds like you are doing it the same thing, just in reverese. That should be fine then!

It certainly sounds like noise valves though. maybe just check it again to make sure or be use the nuts holding the rocker arms arn't loose.

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:05 pm

a good way to confirm you are at TDC while adjusting each valve is that as you slightly move the pulley, the valves wont move and will the least compression of the valve springs.

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:51 pm

I was reading about ways to tell if you're at TDC for the compression stroke of #1 and it seems that when rocking the pulley, both valves of #1 should be still and the exhaust valve of #2 should be moving. That sound right?

I guess our method of just finding TDC and then adjusting only gives us a 50/50 chance of hitting TDC of the right stroke. I hope we just f'ed up the adjustment. Tomorrow and Wednesday are gonna be good weather for street "mechanics" like us so we'll re-adjust and hope for the best.

Any thoughts on those compression #'s and plug conditions?

And as always, thanks guys. Your feedback and support really are huge for us.

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 pm

#'s look good. Nice and high.. and even. But whats up with #3? Why cant you get the gauge screwed in? Is that the same model number plug as others? When you pulled the plug another plug fit in the 3 hole? I wonder if you have a timesert or something that came out... and is on the plug. ( my ghia has that issue)

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:33 pm

Raj wrote:#'s look good. Nice and high.. and even. But whats up with #3? Why cant you get the gauge screwed in? Is that the same model number plug as others? When you pulled the plug another plug fit in the 3 hole? I wonder if you have a timesert or something that came out... and is on the plug. ( my ghia has that issue)

Huh...no...nothing came out with the plug. We put new one's in and all threaded in fine...all are the same model too. I guess it was a combination of cold hands, and the intake manifold and the valve cover breather hose being in the way. We'll just try again. So those plugs don't look too bad then? #4 is pretty yucky, no?

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:04 pm

check this out for reading plugs

What would concern me is that the one plug looks very different from the rest.

http://www.vw-resource.com/sparkplug.html

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:53 am

Brown wrote:check this out for reading plugs

What would concern me is that the one plug looks very different from the rest.

http://www.vw-resource.com/sparkplug.html

Yeah...I thought they should all more or less be the same. If an engine is running rich or lean or whatever else it runs that way in all cylinders, not just one, right?

Maybe since compression is good in the cylinder the nasty plug came from we should look into the cable being bad? Or not well connected?

Thanks for the vw-resource link. To add a visual to it, I found this helpful:

http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/resourc ... dition.jpg

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:10 am

Next time you get a chance pull the plug wire for that cylinder while it is running and see if it makes a difference to the sound of the engine. Maybe that plug is not firing properly.

By the way, if you ever need a driveway to work on the car i'm in Baldwin, so not too far. I've got plenty of room, even if you needed to leave it over night.

PM me if you need to!

Raj · Post by **Raj** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:20 am

beetlejessica wrote:
Yeah...I thought they should all more or less be the same. If an engine is running rich or lean or whatever else it runs that way in all cylinders, not just one, right?

in your case, that's right. And thats only bc you have a single carb. As you evolve to a more complex induction sytstem ( if you were to choose to do so) you can get into one barrel per cly.

beetlejessica · Post by **beetlejessica** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:21 pm

So...after I went to work and before he went to work, Daniel went outside and found TDC of the compression stroke, adjusted the valves and no more noise! I don't know how we F'd it up before, but he said you could "drive a truck" into the gap b/w the adjusting screw and valve stem on the #2 intake and everything else on the 1/2 side was loose too. All that drama, and only 10 minutes worth of work to fix it...Oh...and the valve cover bale was loose (my fault, boring story

) so he tightened that up. I love simple solutions!

Brown, that is an amazing offer - I'll definitely PM if the need arises! We've never had a work session with an expert before. We'll even bring cake...Or muffins or whatever...

And Raj...I think Daniel's been developing a dual-carb fantasy, and I think our guy deserves to be faster. Sometimes it seems like he gets embarrassed when he's slow off the line.

Brown · Post by **Brown** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:08 pm

beetlejessica wrote: Brown, that is an amazing offer - I'll definitely PM if the need arises! We've never had a work session with an expert before. We'll even bring cake...Or muffins or whatever...

Any time, but who is this expert you are bringing?

I'm still finding my way around these things too!!

Das Volks Vintage Volkswagen Gruppe

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